Curse

draco inferno · Dec 26, 2006, 07:43 AM // 07:43

here's the way i see it:
fire has seen so many hits it's not even funny. all of this "skill balancing" had at one point nerfed fire eles almost to the brink of extinction. then, we finally get a skill that's worth running and basing a build on. now we stand on the threshhold of the inevitable nerf. ive been playing my ele since day 1, and i have seen all the great build rise and fall. but it still doesnt make it any less painful to wait in anticipation as another great build faces the dreaded nerfbat.
now, there are obviously a few ways of going about this. the most reasonable in my mind would be to reduce the damage or increase the recharge. both would effectively reduce its pwning power in pvp and still keep it useful for pve. anything else would cause the skill to have no business being elite. ANet most likely realizes that exhaustion is out of the question. I don't think they intend to nerf SF (and thus the fire ele again) out of existance, but if they aren't extremely careful, the SF ele will go down in the nerfing history books.

Francis Crawford · Dec 26, 2006, 09:13 AM // 09:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xpl0iter

Francis, Glowing Gaze returns if Foe is Set on FIRE. COnditional. GoLE is Not conditional.\\

Obviously, you need the right build to use Glowing Gaze effectively. Indeed, there are very few skills it can be partnered with effectively, mainly SF, Immolate, and the mediocre-at-best

MoR.

But you can control whether the conditions are met.

Enko · Dec 26, 2006, 09:31 AM // 09:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dutch Masterr

i hope you noticed that no where gaile mentioned a nerf...she specificaly said a "skill balancing"...im guessing they will do something to it like they did to eviscerate. eviscerate wasnt a "nerf" because it still does the same thing, its just now balanced out. im guessing they will either decrease the damage dealt to burning foes, reduce the burning time or increase the recharge.

in my opinion, if they increased the recharge to 3 seconds, that would make it pretty balanced out. (yes, 1 second can make a huge difference)

and past history has shown that a "skill balance" means nerfs almost always.

Mouse at Large · Dec 26, 2006, 11:48 AM // 11:48

This is sad news, if true

I agree that SF/GG is powerful, but OVERPOWERED - I don't think so. I sincerely hope that the "balance" is carefully thought out otherwise Anet will have a lot of ticked off players.

I really don't want my ele reduced to her former "glass cannon" status just because some other classes can't rip her to pieces any more........

*edit* Just out of curiosity, I spent a bit of time in observer mode looking for the vast number of SF eles unbalancing PvP. I saw very few. In HoH, there seemed to be an awful lot of R/x teams and in general PVP, the few eles I saw were mainly air/earth. Admittedly this was an unscientific snapshot, but to my mind, it would tend to show that the "problem" is not as great as claimed. Could it be that the biggest whiners are players who simply refuse to adapt?

NinjaKai · Dec 26, 2006, 12:44 PM // 12:44

Gaile only commented on that one skill. Don't jump to conclusions aboud the entire class being balanced with no evidence.

As far as Searing Flames is concerned. I don't really care. Personally I never wasted the time to cap it since I didn't think it was worth it. I can think of far better uses for my elite skill slot.

Why_Me · Dec 26, 2006, 03:10 PM // 15:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zinger314

As I said, increasing the cast time to 2 seconds, and reducing the recharge to 1 second, would fix the skill.

Well said, thats EXACTLY what needs to be done. It makes it much easier for the casual team to shut down, yet keeps the same DPS. If you want to maintain energy, you need to waste 1.5 seconds with a glowing gaze, affecting your DPS.

Thallandor · Dec 26, 2006, 04:56 PM // 16:56

Seriously, this is a classic example why the PvPers and PvErs will never co-exist in this game and the sooner Anet understands and see this, the less agnoy it will be for everyone.

Leave the PvE alone, go nerf/balance the crap out of the PvP for all we care. How are elementist suppose to play now? Dance seductively and hopefully distract the mob/players?

bungusmaximus · Dec 26, 2006, 05:31 PM // 17:31

Thats really stupid to nerf SF, I run SF sometimes myself and I really carry only two damage skills on my bar, the rest is self-heal and energy management. I'm not going to whine about touchers either, or annoying RaO thumpers that KD me all the time. Just bring something to counter it and ull be perfectly fine. In my experience easy-to-run builds are simple to counter by smart players, because their predictable as hell. Turn a Mesmer or a good Ranger loose on me and ill be eating dirt pretty quick. If they reduce damage I won't even mind that much, but everything else will ruin the skill.

Francis Crawford · Dec 26, 2006, 09:32 PM // 21:32

Well, we'll see. Gaile isn't infallible; e.g., she just posted a mea culpa on the subject of whether treasure chests are or aren't seasonal.

That said, it does seem as if a couple of PvP maps that more or less enforce clustering motivate to Anet to cripple AoE for the rest of the game ...

Xpl0iter · Dec 27, 2006, 12:35 AM // 00:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Why_Me

Well said, thats EXACTLY what needs to be done. It makes it much easier for the casual team to shut down, yet keeps the same DPS. If you want to maintain energy, you need to waste 1.5 seconds with a glowing gaze, affecting your DPS.

Why_me and Zinger. Not sure if your ANY expereinced with a profession Called MESMER.

In my opinion, both of you know squat about the GW history interms of ELE skills being USED by MESMER primary. If you DO know, than thats uggestion would NOT have been mentioned.

Let me express a Little Background to cover my ass when i am going to provide you with the basis of why that idea sounded so silly to me.

Me/Ele ( SPIKER )
I have seen ele skills being used by This specific primary profession for a While, and i STILL use it my SELF when i air spike.

MESMER Primary attribute = FAST CASTING
Fasting at 16 ( NEARLY MAKES THE SKIL CAST HALF )
when this is considered in terms of SF compatibility and the Suggestion you BOTH have supported with Such passion, here goes the Result.
SF( 1 Second Cast, 1 Second Recharge )
Nothing really changed for Mesmers, but the DPS increased because of FAST casting for THEM, not for US, a PRIMARY PROFESSION.

So here i ask you THIS once your suggestion for nerfing are taken into consideration: Why exactly SF an ELE elite if it can better be used by Another profession with more or less excellent dps output?

This is true for entire AIR line.

Hence, IMHO, I WOULD HATE, and yes, i am going to Repeat. I WOULD HATE to see ANY mesmer spamming any ELE skill JUST BECAUSE they have excess to Fast Casting. It is an ELITE, and if an ELE ELITE can better be used by mesmers than ELES, than it is really about time to remove Ele's existance from guildwars.

Francis, Lets not give me any silly ideas here. i DO NOT think an IMMOLATE and MOR will be added to my PVP OR PVE list any time soon. SPECIALLY when i have 4 skills to support on SF, just so i can spam it with effectiveness.
You can Create conditions, but you can't control the fact that Conditions can be Removed in an INSTANT with the amount of options available to various classes.

AS i have said before: IF Buff to Rodgort's Invocation can be assumed by increasing 8 dmg to the skill, than Skill balancing of an ELITE spell should be considered done by reducing its dmg by 8.

IF none of these sound good, then buff the entire freakin Fire line (as i have been screaming for it for last few months, and PLEASE, DON'T try to do it by adding a pathetic dmg increment to it. Do it Properly if you are going to buff the fire line) while nerfing this skill to the ground.
BUT, any Nerf, that makes it more viable for mesmers than eles, then watch how many people u see ticked off.
Eles tend to get the Shaft more often any than any one else. Having said that, i see alot of whiners who don't know how to use their professions well enough.

Darkest Elemantal.

EDIT: The above post has been Edited to Replace word RECHARGE with CAST

Zinger314 · Dec 27, 2006, 12:37 AM // 00:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xpl0iter

Me/Ele ( SPIKER )
I have seen ele skills being used by This specific primary profession for a While, and i STILL use it my SELF when i air spike.

MESMER Primary attribute = FAST CASTING
Fasting at 16 ( NEARLY MAKES THE SKIL RECHARGE HALF )
when this is considered in terms of SF compatibility and the Suggestion you BOTH have supported with Such passion, here goes the Result.
SF( 1 Second Cast, 1 Second Recharge )
Nothing really changed for Mesmers, but the DPS increased because of FAST casting for THEM, not for US, a PRIMARY PROFESSION.

Except their Energy pool is much, much smaller, and they'll run out of Energy quite quickly, even with Attunements and Glowing Gaze.

Xpl0iter · Dec 27, 2006, 12:47 AM // 00:47

I am not sure where your "drying up their energy pool" with ele attunement. They do not know how to select their spamming skills if such is the reason.
And if such was the drawback, then why do people still pick Mesmers for Spamming the air skills?
Eles with more energy + dual attunement support still do not get picked that often IMHO when compared to mesmers air spikers.

Secondly, If EVERY thing is about PVP, then removing PVE from this game
A bip can constantly keep Any caster full for PVE purposes. You can't just ignore PVE prespective while making such comments to support your argument.

Etcetera · Dec 27, 2006, 01:22 AM // 01:22

wow this is great. i stopped WoW at january 2006 and started GW june 2006 and i have to say. GW eles cry and whine as much as WoW mages, with one huge difference.

-WoW mages have the right to cry. GW eles DO NOT HAVE A RIGHT TO CRY

the fire magic line as i see it, is good enough for PvE. and if you think about it, that's all it matters since the description on Fire Magic is HUGE damage to AREA. if you're gonna pull down the casting time and hte recharge of most fire spells then you're gonna end up with an AoE version of AIR MAGIC. This is exactly what Searing Flames does atm. look at the stats on it.

Energy cost - **15**
Casting time - 1
Recharge time - 2

see how i put stars around 15? BECAUSE ITS IMPORTANT. like someone else said above. Searing Flames atm renders most of the other skills in the Fire line totally useless. and just like someone else said, the only Fire damage skills he carries in his Searing Flames build is Searing Flames and Glowing Gaze, and the rest are self heal and attunements and what not. for the sake of arguement lets say the general everyday Searing Flames elementalist carries this sort of build (its probably true).

In PvE, its fine, why wouldnt it be fine, are you going to scream nerf Searing Flames because the elementalist is fulfulling his role as a ranged damage dealer?

In organised PvP (meaning no AB no CM no RA or TA) HoH or GvG. All you need is a well timed Distracting Shot or Diversion and the entire build collapses. plus distracting shot or diversion arent rare skills that show up in HoH or GvG, so you can be sure that you can handle the threat properly with your team. Obviously you cant shut down an entire team of Searing Flames elementalists but then again, can you shut down an entire team of Obsidian Flame elementalists or a ranger spike team?

as it stands now, Searing Flames is fine. If you increase the casting time, then you're gonna get more FC mesmers with Searing Flames which doesnt solve the problem at all.

so please. dont cry about Searing Flames, if it's owning you too hard in RA, dont play RA.

Etcetera · Dec 27, 2006, 01:28 AM // 01:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zinger314

Except their Energy pool is much, much smaller, and they'll run out of Energy quite quickly, even with Attunements and Glowing Gaze.

They don't. my friend plays a Me/E fast cast fire elementalist sometimes. his energy pool is at 45 and he can echo meteor showers rodgorts invocations and just about anything i do on my fire ele primary build and he finishes the battle at around 70% energy. you dont always need to use dual attunements especially when Elemental Attunement only lasts 30 seconds with 0 energy storage. use Glyph of Energy or Glyph of Lesser Energy.

The only way a FC mesmer would screw his own energy pool is excessive exhaustion spam. ie gale and mind shock etc

Wretchman Drake · Dec 27, 2006, 01:30 AM // 01:30

For once Eles are made out to be the powerful mages they should be in this game. Searing Flames does not need to get nerfed, end of discussion.

Gimme Money Plzkthx · Dec 27, 2006, 01:46 AM // 01:46

Searing flames needs balanced, not nerfed. Either a one or two second recharge time increase, or the same thing but for casting time.

pingu666 · Dec 27, 2006, 02:12 AM // 02:12

if you do that mes/ele thing, then u would have 3/4 slots free for attunment runes (+6/8energy)
so
30+7(energy armour)+8= 45energy then stick your weapons on, thatll be another 12 to 20energy

65energy, my ele runs around with 76energy, so not *too* far off.

i thought fast casting effected cast time only, not recharge?

besides, vs a warriors armour the 119damage will turn into ~60ish

its just its spamability and the burning which makes worth taking over elemental attunement/other elite e management skills.

Xpl0iter · Dec 27, 2006, 02:14 AM // 02:14

gimme, please shush if u dont have enough time to read the entire thread before opening your mouth. Your acting like an ignorant person who is trying to flame people here. You gave no reasoning what so ever to justify your "suggestion"

In the history of BALANCE, its usualy been a NERF. Secondly, Go and read post #30 before you blabber about the cast increase.

Peace.

Gimme Money Plzkthx · Dec 27, 2006, 02:19 AM // 02:19

I read post #30, now how about you go and read the fast casting attribute? It affects casting, not recharge (you seem to not be able to decide which it affects in your post). Also, I'm not trying to be rude, but I honestly did not understand parts of the post due to grammar. Mesmers can also not excercise effective energy management, especially if they're spamming searing flames.

Xpl0iter · Dec 27, 2006, 02:22 AM // 02:22

Now how about you read post #26 and then #30 before u question me?
stop acting ignorant as i mentioned above.

Here, let me make it EASY On you. Check Below, and THEN read #30.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Why_Me

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zinger314

As I said, increasing the cast time to 2 seconds, and reducing the recharge to 1 second, would fix the skill.

Well said, thats EXACTLY what needs to be done. It makes it much easier for the casual team to shut down, yet keeps the same DPS. If you want to maintain energy, you need to waste 1.5 seconds with a glowing gaze, affecting your DPS.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xpl0iter

MESMER Primary attribute = FAST CASTING
Fasting at 16 ( NEARLY MAKES THE SKIL CAST HALF )
when this is considered in terms of SF compatibility and the Suggestion you BOTH have supported with Such passion, here goes the Result.
SF( 1 Second Cast (BECAUSE OF FAST CAST After SUGGESTION), 1 Second Recharge(BECAUSE OF SUGGESTION) )
Nothing really changed for Mesmers, but the DPS increased because of FAST casting for THEM, not for US, a PRIMARY PROFESSION.

Disclaimer: I have No where stated that My grammer is Perfect, but i Definetly Claim that my grammer is understanable.

AS YOU CAN SEE, it was Suggested in Those post to Reduce the RECHARGE TIME, and ALL i did was Taking that SUggestion and Breaking it down into Pieces. I HOPE that is CLEAR now? If Not, i will Write a small post summarizing Me, Why_me and Zinger. Just ask for it...

AS far as Energy Goes, QUit it with PVP only behavious. There is a something which is called PVE.
IN pve, u have BIPS.
As long as BIP is arround in PVE, they do NOT need to worry about their MANA.
EVEN in PVP, they can make the MOST out of it before they ARE DRAINED.

Gimme, Now i am waiting for your Reply. GGnKthx4Readin